Episode 15 - Dr. Kathy Platoni on Combat Stress

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Dr. Random podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah, and here's the deal. We don't do boxes here. Every episode is different, every conversation has its own flavor, and no topic is off limits. If you're looking for predictable, this isn't it. But if you want real conversations, honest takes, and a touch of intellect in the best way, you're in the right place. This is Dr. Random Podcast. All right. Hello and welcome to the Dr. Random Podcast. I am Dr. Sarah, and today I am so honored because My guest is Dr. Kathy Platoni, and she is a retired colonel of the U.S. army and has many other qualifications and things that she has done. And so. Yes. And she holds her PhD and Dr. Kathy Platoni is a clinical psychologist for 45 years and 44. 44. 44. In. Her private practice is in Centerville. Am I saying this right? Ohio. Yes. And so she's based out of Ohio, and I had to do an extensive amount of reading just to cover everything that is is thrown and entailed around her. So she's truly amazing. Yes. And Dr. Kathy, we were connected through a mutual friend, Janet Kai. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Who I met through my studying abroad in Italy and my master's in fine art program. We're both, you know, artists, painters. And I know that she knows you through, I'm assuming it sounds like through the military connection. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:47] Speaker B: We actually roommates at Fort Benning, Georgia, when I came back from Iraq, which was my third of four deployments, and we have remained in very close touch ever since. She's one of my touchstones in this life. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Yes. She's. She's truly amazing. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Absolutely. Across the board. Yes. [00:02:07] Speaker A: You write an article, it sounds like it's kind of a plethora of things. Tell me the name of that again. I know you had sent me a link and you do a lot with that published piece. [00:02:19] Speaker B: Was it the article, the one that [00:02:22] Speaker A: included about the toxic leadership and law enforcement? The most recent one for the winter, 2526. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yes, that was. I'm the editor of that particular magazine, Combat Stress Magazine, but I did not write the article that was written by a police officer by the name of Ken Twarak, who is now a social worker. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:43] Speaker B: And fabulous writer. Yes, yes. [00:02:48] Speaker A: An editor. Sorry, my apologies. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:50] Speaker A: And what I found so fascinating, I was reading over everything that, that you did some editing for is I know we're going to talk about combat stress today. And it's funny because when I kind of mentioned to people I'm talking about combat stress, they thought like, oh, you're kind of like tackling stress. And I'm like, no, I mean it in the sense that like combat, like military enforcement, real deal. [00:03:14] Speaker B: Yes. Battlefield, yes. [00:03:17] Speaker A: And they're like, whoa, okay. And I'm like, yes. It's going to be a very interesting topic that we're going to dive into today. And would you prefer to kind of touch on combat stress? Do you want to touch on the military portion of that first? And then maybe we can talk about a little bit of law enforcement that's touched on with that? [00:03:35] Speaker B: Certainly. [00:03:36] Speaker A: So as far as with the military, what I was reading is I just can't imagine the amount of traumatic stress that happens and situations where you have to think so quickly. Do you kind of want to go into that a little bit? [00:03:51] Speaker B: Okay. The, the battlefield is, has its own brand of unique stressors, as one might imagine. And it's very hard to describe what it's like to be, to serve in the combat theater, especially since there's no real rear echelon anymore. Everyone is on the front lines. That's, that's what urban combat looks like. And so you, no matter what your position is in the military, you are a soldier first and a trained killer, which is very hard for people to swallow. Even as a psychologist, I carried at least one weapon, always one weapon, sometimes two weapons, because you never know when you're going to be called upon to protect your own. And that's a very sobering thought. But soldiers first, that's our primary training. In fact, a lot of our training is similar, not as, certainly not as intensive as, as infantry training. Going forward into the combat theater, what we're exposed to on a daily basis begins with the adversity that we're exposed to on the battlefield. You're living in extremely austere conditions without any amenities. For example, I was remote during most of my combat tours, meaning that we were far from having bathrooms and showers and anything else. You're in the desert, you may have a tent, you may have a metal box that you live in. You may be living just out without anything or a wooden shed thrown together with a few nails. Showers, if you were lucky, came every six weeks. And that's quite something when you only have four uniforms to wear for a year. If you're lucky, you have a chow hall and don't have to eat MREs all the time, which we finally refer to as meals refusing to exit. But the food that is presented to you is often unpalatable. There's very little contact with family and friends back home. You're just stuck in the middle of nowhere fighting a war. And if you've never deployed or never been in the military, it's very hard to imagine what that's like. I'll never forget that one of my friends told me I needed to go over to the DHL office and pick up a package. Dhl? We're in the middle of the desert, living in a tent with nothing else. But it really is. [00:06:42] Speaker A: You're like, [00:06:45] Speaker B: with, with, with. Your whole life is fraught with difficulties. And the simplest thing, like having a new pen to use, is a big deal. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker B: And as. As a psychologist on a combat stress control team, we were operable 24 hours a day, seven days a week, which is extremely demanding, especially with the numbers of soldiers and Marines and Air Force personnel and Navy Seabees who are experiencing traumatic stress, combat stress, and ptsd. So you have to be in. Your on switch has to be on at all times. There's very little respite from that. But. But you're high on adrenaline all the time, waiting for the next attack. So your energy level is usually pretty good. Even though you may be sleeping with one weapon wrapped around each leg and a boot, a boot on the ground at night or whenever you're lucky enough to get some sleep. One of the most difficult things to cope with in the combat theater is the loss of comrades, the loss of fellow soldiers, the loss of people in your unit or your platoon or your battalion or your brigade, and that's pretty much a constant. And after the memorial services, I'm sure you've seen pictures of the battlefield cross with the helmet on, the rifle and the dog tags wrapped around it. After you have your memorial service and the remains are, are sent home, you're back on mission. There's no time to, to grieve, to recover. It's a. It's a constant stream of painful life experiences, and we bring them home with us. And your old self isn't hanging in the closet when you get home. But what, what makes it so rewarding, I go back and do it again in a New York millisecond, is the camaraderie and the belongingness and of purpose. I don't think anything I've ever done in this life rises to that occasion as much as deploying and serving in the combat theater. But it's a very rough life, and it's not for everyone. [00:09:21] Speaker A: My. Yeah, I've always been very passionate about the stories behind what, you know, everybody is doing overseas with military. I kind of grew up surround my dad was in the Navy. I grew up going to the Navy bases when he had his active duty, things like that. And so I just. I grew up with a heart for what our military is doing for us. And I, like, really feel like I have a deep, deep appreciation embedded in me for it. And I wish, and I hope everybody does the way I do, and so [00:09:56] Speaker B: thank you for that. If only they did. [00:10:02] Speaker A: But I just, you know, I commend you and the stories I'm hearing, but. Yes, please, I want to hear more. Yeah. And this is kind of. I don't know if this is PC, I should even be saying this, but growing up during Desert Storm, I may edit this later out of the podcast. We'll see. But my dad used to have a roll of toilet paper on the dining room covered, but I guess came from what was sent overseas with a face on it that said, wipe your A with this. I don't know if you ever ran across those. I don't know where you got that, but it was a certain face. [00:10:45] Speaker B: But it does belong in the dining room cabinet. [00:10:48] Speaker A: But I'm just gonna say it was, you know, a dictator from over that way. His face, which was eventually, I think he was annihilated at some point, but. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:02] Speaker B: Very appropriate. [00:11:06] Speaker A: I just thought I would share that kind of. [00:11:10] Speaker B: I love it. Well, toilet paper was a very expensive commodity in the combat theater. My commander forgot to. To submit the supply list so that when we got to Afghanistan, we didn't have any toilet paper. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So it belongs in the dining room. Yes. [00:11:33] Speaker A: It was, like, over the china cupboard. Yeah. [00:11:36] Speaker B: There you go. Just where it should be. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And you know what I read in what I find so fascinating, too, when I was reading this, with all the information and everything you do and the services you offer, and you have such a heart for it, what would you kind of want to share with anybody listening surrounding, you know, your passion and your work and what you do surrounding combat stress with the military? [00:12:05] Speaker B: I think that everybody should pay attention to the crisis among returning veterans who can't find their way home. We all know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody else that's really suffering and struggling. And the numbers of veteran suicides and even active duty suicides and reserve suic is far greater than the statistics will demonstrate. Go to your local VA volunteer to help a veteran. Send a care package overseas. Talk to a veteran. Go to a talk by veterans. Have veterans come speak at your church or your school. I get asked to do that all the time because I want to educate people as to what it means to be in the military and what it is to serve in the combat theater. Pay attention. We ignore this. It doesn't affect us. We've become such a it's all about me society that people really don't know and often say very cruel and unkind things. I've had it happen to me way too many times. I have to use a lot of restraint when people make those comments. I'm liable to go across the table and do something I might regret. But it really is. It really is cruel. How many people did you kill? Oh, it wasn't. Wasn't that bad. Get over it. Oh, you must have been very young when you went to the war in Afghanistan. As if it happened 30 years ago. People just aren't even aware of where the military is serving. It would be so nice if people would read, read the newspapers and pay attention. This is why Combat Stress magazine is such an important publication. I send it to at least 4,000 people myself, and we have over 200, 000 readers. And we're trying to expand upon that so people develop some degree of an appreciation. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Just thinking about in the article, there was the six second stress distress. They call it qr, right? [00:14:19] Speaker B: Yes. The quieting reflex. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Yes. Can do you. Would you like to talk about that a little bit? [00:14:28] Speaker B: Well, I would like to talk about something very similar. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:31] Speaker B: To the quieting reflex that I think even though I've taught the quieting reflex quite extensively, there's something that works even more powerfully, especially for people with. Dealing with, with PTSD and post traumatic stress. And it's called tactical breathing or sniper breathing. And it looks like this. You, you count. You. You breathe in slowly to the count of four. So that would be 1, 2, 3, 4. And then hold for two. 1, 2. Breathe out slowly to the count of four, and then hold for two and repeat. So it's breathing in slowly to the count of four, holding for two, and then breathing out slowly to the count of four and holding for two. This is actually a physiologically based technique because it's the holding of the breath in between that rebalances the carbon dioxide and oxygen mixture in the bloodstream. And that's what calms the nervous system. So it's foolproof. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Okay, that's. It's interesting because actually the yoga class that I go to every Sunday, they kind of do a similar breathing technique, which is awesome. So I'm like, oh, cool. Yay. [00:15:52] Speaker B: And it's so simple. I mean, nobody knows that you're doing it. And you can do it anywhere and anytime. And this is something I not only teach my military personnel and veterans, but police officers and firefighters and EMTs and paramedics as well because they, they work in such a high intensity environment. Different kind of battlefield. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Yes. And kind of veering over into law enforcement. The releasing stress in six seconds, which I guess that article in Combat Stress magazine, just this last, most recent one, was by Daniel Purse. Yes, I'm saying that. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:30] Speaker A: I hope. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Yes. He is our editor in chief. [00:16:34] Speaker A: And so basically this is a great technique to use for first responders, you know, military, everybody. And the magazine's core mission sounds like it's in harnessing post traumatic stress. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Correct. [00:16:49] Speaker A: And rather than just managing or reducing it, it sounds like there's a positive reframing look like in real life for someone who's experienced trauma. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:02] Speaker A: So how do you think families and communities. Well, we kind of went over this. I was going to say better support. Support veterans and first responders. That was one of my questions for the institutions. But it looks like with social media's presence, with everything going on, you know, what, what they're showing in the media right now, it's, it's hard. It's like, how can we be more supportive, do you think, of our law enforcement right now and with what they're going through? Anything that you would like to touch on as far as that touch on social media? [00:17:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. The lack of understanding of what law enforcement officers go through on a daily basis, the abuse, the threats, the horrors they have to witness, the gruesome things they have to deal with, the child abuse, child sexual abuse, gruesome deaths, officer involved shootings. I would say that the level of stress that they deal with on a daily basis is everything. And maybe even more of what we dealt with in the combat theater is their daily diet for 30 or more years of service if they choose to stay in the law enforcement profession. And police are so badly maligned, you don't have to look much further than what's going on with ICE in Minnesota and other places to see what officers are forced to deal with. And I think social media has ignited that fire something terrible. We, we've gotten that they're humans too, and, and they hurt and bleed just as much as we do. And that's largely forgotten. I've recently done some, some newspaper articles and podcasts and TV interviews about the impact of officer involved shootings. And everybody wants to blame the police. I mean, having to fire on someone is a last resort. But when someone's pointing a weapon at you, you have, by federal law, you have the right to defend yourself. If you have reason to suspect this person has the will and the means to do harm to you. And even though many of these people have serious mental illnesses, that does not prevent them from being able to take your life. And I serve 41 police departments and seven fire departments. The department that. One of the departments that I do the most work for is the Dayton Police Department. And Dayton is the seventh most violent city in the United States per capita, even though it's a very small city. But the level of violence is incomprehensible. And the toll that this takes on these officers and what they have to see and touch and smell and feel is beyond what any human being should have to deal with. But that's what our police have done as their sworn duty. And God bless them all. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:15] Speaker B: And unlike the fire service, they're glad to see you if you're in the fire service. They're not so happy to see you if you're the police, even though they've called you. But when you get there, they're not happy about it quite often. [00:20:30] Speaker A: And, you know, I. I feel like growing up, that was not what it felt like. I feel like. I don't know if maybe I was just naive growing up younger, but I just feel like I have only noticed this kind of hostility towards law enforcement. I feel like in the last maybe six or seven years. Do you? [00:20:52] Speaker B: I think you're right. Yes. I. I think the tide has turned against law enforcement. And I'm sure there's many factors involved, but I'm not sure what they are. I think that, for me, that remains an enigma. It's a beautiful example in. On August 4th of 2019, we had a mass shooting here in Dayton in the Oregon district. And nine innocent civilians were killed. And the police apprehended or neutralized the shooter. Thank God, or there would have been more. And those six police officers were heralded as heroes. They even met with the president at the White House. There were signs up everywhere thanking the Dayton police. And the. The entire Dayton community came out to honor them. And two weeks later, it was all forgotten. It meant nothing. It's as if it didn't happen. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Wow. [00:22:01] Speaker B: I. I can't explain how this has come about. I mean, like you, I grew up respecting the police and holding them in the highest esteem. My father worked very closely with the police when I was growing up, and they. We always had cops at our house for dinner or to hang out on the back patio. [00:22:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:23] Speaker B: So seeing what, what has happened, and I, I think social media is a lot of it. People post horrible things if they've seen the police in action and have to fire on a suspect or even, even take a suspect to the ground and tase them. And I, I don't know what the disconnect is, but it gets pretty ugly. I've heard the horrible things actually on scene because I do go to. Well, I'm actually on Dayton SWAT as their psychologist, so I go to as many of the call outs as I can and will be again after I get this brace off my broken knee. And I see what, what the public says to these people, these, these wonderful people in uniform. And I have to say, my experience, after seeing probably nearly a thousand police officers over the last 20 years in my practice, they are some of the kindest, most decent human beings I've ever met. Their moral integrity is so far beyond reproach. What is the general public missing? [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's kind of a tragedy, actually. [00:23:45] Speaker B: It is an absolute tragedy. [00:23:48] Speaker A: You serving as the psychologist for the Dayton, Ohio Police swat, you said yes. Do you mind? Is it okay to share with people kind of what that entails or kind of give some kind of description on it? I just find that pretty interesting. [00:24:08] Speaker B: You know, it just kind of fell together. When I got back from Iraq, this was in 2006, I went to a seminar by the Dayton Daily News, and I threw. Everybody had to throw their business card into a fishbowl, and the person whose business card was selected would get a free ad in the Dayton Daily News. And fortunately mine was picked up. And I advertised in the Dayton Daily News that I was reopening my practice after returning from war and that I was treating veterans and first responders and so on and so forth. And two of the lieutenants from the Dayton Police Department, both of them SWAT commanders at one time or another, said, why don't you come on out and talk to our SWAT officers? And so I did. So the relationship was born. And when I came back From Afghanistan in 2010, they invited me back and I asked if I could train with them, and they said yes. And I, they kind of encouraged me to come to some of the SWAT call outs, and I said yes. And then I bought myself a SWAT uniform and the rest is history. So I got my, I've got my ballistic vest and my Kevlar helmet, and it's actually my army helmet, but it's still a Kevlar helmet and my, my police boots and all of that. And even though I'm not a sworn officer, I get to go to the call outs with them and train with them. [00:25:40] Speaker A: That's so interesting. [00:25:42] Speaker B: It is very interesting. It's a learning experience like none other. You cannot read any of this in. In a book. And in fact, police officers are my very best teachers because again, you. You can't read this in a book. [00:25:55] Speaker A: One of my Pepperdine was actually a hostage negotiator. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:00] Speaker A: They have some interesting stories too. [00:26:04] Speaker B: So glad you mentioned that. Because SWAT and the Dayton hostage negotiation team deploy to scenes together. So I'm the mental health advisor to the hostage negotiation team also. But they are so gifted at what they do. They. They rarely ask me any questions. We're just sort of there in the same command center during SWAT call outs. So I get to see a lot of. A lot of things and a lot of crime scenes that are just amazing. I'm one lucky psychologist. [00:26:39] Speaker A: I don't know if you remember, I always reference movies. I'm kind of a nerd like that. But do you remember the movie? Did you ever watch Her Alibi? [00:26:48] Speaker B: I have not seen it. [00:26:51] Speaker A: Okay. I like that movie because it's about a murder. And it ends up that they were coming from trying to get away from their country in Romania, and they accused this girl. It's. It's. It's an interesting movie. I feel like you might like it, but it's called Her Alibi. It's kind of like, I'm gonna write [00:27:09] Speaker B: that down and I've gotta see that. [00:27:11] Speaker A: It's kind of a rom com too, in a way, but I was wondering too, what I find pretty fascinating is the Guantanamo Bay history that you have. Guantanamo Bay is located in Cuba. [00:27:24] Speaker B: Cuba? Yes, yes, Cuba. [00:27:27] Speaker A: I'm again a nerd. I'm thinking of A Few Good Men, which is one of my favorite movies. [00:27:32] Speaker B: Yes, I've been on those scenes. Yes. Some of it was filmed in Cuba. Yes. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Okay, so I don't know if you want to touch on kind of that history that you have with Guantanamo Bay. [00:27:45] Speaker B: Certainly. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:27:47] Speaker B: I was the commander of a small combat stress control detachment to provide combat stress control and all psychological for all of the troops that were stationed there where the detention camps are located. And even though we were not in direct combat, we were dealing with a very hostile population of detainees. And at that time, there were almost a thousand of them at Camp America, which is part of Joint Task Force Guantanamo Bay. There's the Navy side and the army side. Hard to believe. I was there 22 years ago and things have changed greatly. There's barely a, basically just a handful of detainees now. Many of them will return to their home countries only to take up with isis. But it was a very high intensity, high pressure mission because the place was crawling with high ranking generals and admirals and all sorts of people at, who were administrating over the detention camps. I mean, we were on the. Guantanamo Bay was on the world stage then because the detainees from 911 were there. Okay. We were also always on camera, so everything you did was being very closely monitored by infrared cameras. And there was a story, and I have no doubt that it's true, one of the government contractors that was there decided he was going to moon the camera and he was off the island by the close of business that day. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Wow. [00:29:30] Speaker B: So. And because there were so many generals, we really had to perfect our mission in providing all levels of support services for infantry troops, military police who were serving as correctional officers. And they were very, very stressed by dealing with the detainees. And as you can imagine, excuse me, they had no love for Americans. So it wasn't unusual for them to be spit on, urinated on, defecated on, etc. Etc. Wow. Yeah, it was, There were some nasty things that happened there. But we took, I saw the detainees, I walked the block more than enough times, but they were extremely well taken care of. In fact, the US Government built an entirely new series of health facilities for them. They had state of the art medical intervention and also mental health interventions. The most valuable lesson that I took from Guantanamo Bay. Well, there were two. One, I never wanted to go back there. I wanted to go to the real combat zone. And the other one was, and I learned this on the battlefield, two star general. And he had taken a real liking to our combat stress control team. He couldn't do enough for us because we couldn't do enough to take care of his troops. He said to me, always do what right looks like. And that, that mantra stays in my head to this day. I, I had such endless admiration for, for this man. And he was the commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo Bay. I believe he's retired now, but he, he was quite something. And he made sure that we had all of the equipment we needed to perform our missions. And yeah, we, we were highly awarded for, for what we did for him. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:44] Speaker B: But I couldn't wait to get to the real combat theater. And three months later, I was on my way. [00:31:51] Speaker A: And was that, that was Operation Iraqi Free? [00:31:56] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. [00:31:57] Speaker A: Yep. And Operation Iraqi Freedom is, was that, were you And Janet connected or was that something else after that? [00:32:06] Speaker B: We connected at Fort Benning, Georgia. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:32:10] Speaker B: So, yeah, I returned to Fort Benning because the 3rd Infantry Division asked me to join them at Fort Benning instead of going home so that I could provide services for their returning troops who were in pretty bad shape. Yeah, we saw a lot of combat and a lot of deaths in Iraq. And I was only too happy to accept that invitation. It was a huge honor. So I spent another six months on active duty at Fort Benning with the 3rd Infantry Division. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Okay. Something that I was kind of reading in the Combat Stress magazine too is they were touching on AI. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:55] Speaker A: And what I found so interesting there was a part brought up with something that I don't know why I didn't think of it that way, but the fact that AI has bias because the people creating the AI platforms, whoever's behind each different AI platform can have a bias themselves. So we're dealing with bias and AI. And I, like, I don't know why I didn't think about that before. And when I saw that in this article, I'm like, that's so interesting. Interesting because they said it can take years to work through the bias. And I bet there's a bias dealing with what you deal with out there in the world. That's probably like huge. [00:33:34] Speaker B: You would be correct. Yes. I'm, I'm very concerned about, and this is probably because of my ignorance. I mean, I know what I read when I edited the article by Pete Donna Miller and the other articles that they've submitted to Combat Stress for previous issues. But I'm very concerned that it is being used to replace therapy and used to replace diagnostic expertise that should be never, never be left to artificial intelligence. It's an art form. It's, it's a gift and it requires years and years of, of training and experience. So this is very off putting. It's a, I mean therapy and, and, and, and, and treatment and diagnosing patients or clients is about relationship. You're not going to get that from AI. It's not going to be a friend. [00:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you found AI interfering besides what you just touched on? Do you think it's interfering with anything with combat like military or law enforcement? Have you seen any red flags or concerns? [00:34:44] Speaker B: Not, not at this time. But that's probably because my own ignorance about that. That's a very interesting question. I haven't seen anything, probably because I don't know what to look for in that. But I suppose at some point there will be Inappropriate use or misuse of that in law enforcement and the fire service and so on. I don't know what that, that looks like because the entire concept is so new to me. I'm still trying to figure that one out. [00:35:14] Speaker A: I know it also touched on organizational abandonment. Yes. Which sounds like that's more. I could be wrong. But is that more prevalent with law enforcement as compared to military? Possibly. Or do you think. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Yes, because it is more prevalent in, in law enforcement than in the military. Because I think camaraderie is the basis for a lot of survivorship in the military. In law enforcement. Of course we have toxic leaders in the military as well. And most of the leaders I had were not the best. But I, I think the closeness comes because you all live together at one point in the military, especially if you deploy together and you're close, very close in, in your. Whether that be your squad, your platoon, your company, etc, etc, and that that closeness develops over a period of years. I've seen probably more organizational abandonment in law enforcement just by experience alone. Leaders promise you the moon and that they're always going to have your backs. And what comes of that is instead of learning experiences from taking a misstep, God forbid, it's. It has become very punitive. And leaders are often, and this isn't true of all police departments leaders, they just don't show up literally and figuratively. And I've seen that happen more and more and more. And again, when there's a changing of the guard with new chiefs and command staffs coming in, in any police department, it can get better and it can get worse. But I've seen a definite downturn in good leadership in some of the departments that I support. And yes, the officers do take care of themselves. The same camaraderie and belongingness is what is pure salvation and gold for these officers. That's often not the case at the higher levels of command. And it's very sad. Reality got your back. It often comes up empty. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Something that I know that is important history with you that I wanted to touch on is that you are a survivor of the Fort Hood massacre occur which. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Yes, ma'. Am. [00:37:57] Speaker A: November. Am I gonna get the date right? November 5th. [00:38:02] Speaker B: November 5th of 2009. Yes. [00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Which to me, I bet sometimes that feels like it was a long time ago and sometimes it probably feels like it was just yesterday. [00:38:12] Speaker B: It always feels like it was yesterday or a few minutes ago. It's always, always right there. Some something of that magnitude is, is always very close at hand and, and you know, if it wasn't, I would feel guilty for abandoning my fellow soldiers that were killed that day. So I'm, I'm gonna, I don't know if you can see this, but I'm going to show you my hero bracelet from the Fort Hood massacre. Of the 13 killed, five were from my unit. You probably can't see that real well. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I can see it. Who will go? [00:38:47] Speaker B: Who will go for us? Send me. And that's from, it should say the Bible verse for some reason that, that's missing, but it has the names of the five soldiers from my unit and our sister unit. We, we deployed together, but they, my sister unit went to Iraq and we went to Afghanistan. But this has, has marked my life and, and changed the course of my life in, in many ways. And that's probably true for, for many some. There's been 10 suicides since the Fort Hood massacre because the federal government, as much as I love the army and my country, has completely abandoned us. Wow. Yes, completely. And that was, that was a hell of a day to remember. [00:39:41] Speaker A: How many survivors were there? [00:39:45] Speaker B: Hundreds, because we were all going through the Soldier Readiness Processing center to get ready for deployment or many troops were coming back from deployment. So we were going through all of our medical checks, wills, powers of attorney, finance, vaccinations, audiology, ophthalmology, physical exams, all of that. So there was, were hundreds and hundreds of people in the Soldier Readiness Processing center that day. So the shooter had primed prime targets, huh? [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah. It just shows the maliciousness of the planet. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Yes, it certainly does. Yes. [00:40:27] Speaker A: I, I have no words. I mean, just [00:40:32] Speaker B: there, there are many words to describe what it is to go through something like that. I don't know. I've written about it pretty profusely, but the fact that we've never gotten resolution in over 16 years is the most embittering experience of my life. And it's a battle that I continue to fight and will continue to fight because it's still considered workplace violence and not domestic terrorism. So I, I, I can send you a lot more information on, on that if you would like to read about it. But basically, I've sent letters to dozens and dozens and dozens of elected officials. The president, Pete Hegseth, the Senate Armed Services committee. And in 16 years, I've gotten nothing but a form letter from President Trump. And I've had many experts on the subject of domestic terrorism sign the letter to the president once it was sent back after I personally met with the president when he came to Dayton after the Oregon District mass shooting. I was given permission to give the letter to the Secret Service and it was sent back two weeks later because it couldn't be vetted. There I am in my army dress blues, saluting the president on the front page of Military Times and it couldn't be vetted. Wow. So a lot of what happened with the Fort Hood massacre is large, largely being covered up by the US Government. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:42:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:15] Speaker A: Resting. Just what you deal with with your, you know, being a psychologist, dealing with combating stress, dealing with traumatic stress. I think about the psychology behind dealing with our body, kind of like, you know, the embodiment of stress. For instance, I know somebody who's going through a divorce right now and she's having a really hard time and I feel like her nervous system is just shot. And I think about how when people are going through, especially with military law enforcement, your nervous system just must be just like shot all the time. You know, we're. When you're dealing with constant day to day. And I think about what they're handling and I think that's what we need to appreciate as a country is like we have our military law enforcement dealing with this on a daily basis and they're protecting our freedom. And then you think about our law enforcement keeping our streets safe, keeping us away from the crime of drugs and violence and different things like that. You. Human trafficking, which I advocate for a lot. I don't know if Janet told you, but I'm. [00:43:25] Speaker B: She did. And thank you for what you're, you're doing [00:43:31] Speaker A: and you know, just all the important issues. I just think it's a battlefield for each person. I bet it's like an old battlefield against their own body in their mind. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Yes. Your body's revolting against you because it has so much stress. It doesn't know what to do with it. And if you don't deal with it through talking about it and using healthy stress management techniques and getting restorative sleep, it's going to manifest physically. And too often that's the case because there's no opportunities for that or people aren't taking the opportunities for that. So what doesn't go out goes in. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:07] Speaker B: And this is why the lifespan of many law enforcement officers in general is far less than it is for the general public because of what they're exposed to on a daily basis. So I, I do a lot of teaching my first responders how to quiet their brains and how to turn off the stress gauge in it and practice it. And some don't. You can always Tell who isn't. [00:44:35] Speaker A: I. I am a big believer in just, of course, sleep. We gotta have supplements. I'm huge on supplements. If you saw the amount of supplements I take morning and night. But. And I have to do my yoga once a week, and I. [00:44:50] Speaker B: There you go. [00:44:51] Speaker A: And steam and sauna. Like, I have to steam and sauna at least four times a week, so. [00:44:57] Speaker B: But I think that's wonderful. [00:44:59] Speaker A: But I feel like, you know, if I was out there and in a position, you know, I think what you're doing, you know, you need to be commended for. It's just really amazing what you're doing, helping all these, you know, military folks and law enforcement and. I don't know, I just think it's amazing what you're doing to help them. And you have such a heart and a passion for it. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, there. There is one particular underlying reason which drives me, and I was at the top of the hit list for the forehead shooter. I happened to be in a different building when the shooting started, and I can't help believing that somebody else took the rounds meant for me. So, being that I was allowed to live, I have decided to make it my mission to help as many first responders and military personnel and reservists and veterans as I can. I have to do that because I was granted another chance at life, and that's what drives me. But the greater blessing is that I love what I do. I can't wait to get to work every morning. I work seven full days a week. Yes, I do have four different jobs, but I do work seven full days a week, and I absolutely love it. What greater blessing is there? And until, like, until I can't walk anymore, I'm nowhere close to that. I. I'm going to keep doing this because it drives me. It gives my life such value, meaning, and purpose. I'm very lucky. [00:46:35] Speaker A: Yes. Amazing mindset. Love it. And there's. There's a podcast I listen to called Mata University. Have you heard of it? [00:46:45] Speaker B: I have not. [00:46:46] Speaker A: So. I love it. It's. I don't know, I joke around. I don't know if you know the history, but I did a podcast on fatherless daughters and something that girls who lose. I lost my dad to death suddenly of a heart attack when I was. [00:47:01] Speaker B: Oh, I'm so sorry. [00:47:02] Speaker A: But there. There's that missing masculine energy. And it's funny, I didn't really think about it until I was doing the podcast with Dr. Karn Luis, and it's like I crave the masculine energy and it's this podcast where it's like Navy seals yelling at you and telling you, get up, get out of bed. And it's. It's a cool podcast. I love it. I don't know if it's because I need to be around that kind of energy, you know, which might surprise you. Yeah. So. I mean, so. But yeah, it's. It's a. It's a good one. If it's. It's kind of like a kick you in the pants, kind of. [00:47:47] Speaker B: Send that to me, please. [00:47:52] Speaker A: I just think that, you know, all around what you're doing, embodiment, like, encouraging people, giving them the motivation to keep going in life and, like, preventing the high suicide rates with the military and [00:48:04] Speaker B: law enforcement, especially with the onslaught of so much traumatic stress. [00:48:10] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a lot to touch on. Is there anything important or anything else you. A story or anything you feel like would be interesting to share on the podcast today? [00:48:21] Speaker B: Yes. Two quotes. One is from a retired fire captain. We are on the Southwest Ohio Critical Incident Stress Management team together and have been for about. Well, I've been on the team for about 36 years. He's been on maybe 25. And he once said to me during a critical incense trustee briefing, you will never heal until you break your silence. And in the same endeavor, I. I read Police one every day. And I'm sorry, this comes from Blue Courage, a quote from Ernest Hemingway. Only when you're broken can you let the light in. And I stand by those two quotes. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Like it. Only when you're broken, you can let the light in. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yes. All right. So we all have to be broken to get stronger. [00:49:17] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. I. I'm. I feel like kind of a. What he's saying, but, like, I was in car accident Super Bowl Sunday. I was hit, but, like, you know, I'm kind of dealing with some next stuff, which is, you know, but, like, it's interesting because, you know, I think about what our military and our police are doing and like, you know, I was just kind of hit out of the blue, but it made me emotional after. And I think about, you know, I was like, kind of crying, and I was like, oh, my gosh. And, you know, appropriately so. [00:49:52] Speaker B: That's an appropriate reaction. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was just like, okay, where's. Where's my mandoline? On his shoulder during that. No, it's funny. [00:50:02] Speaker B: Do that sniper breathing. [00:50:04] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. The cute. I think that. And if everybody listening, you know, wants to dive in more about Dr. Kathy Platoni. She's just amazing. You can definitely Google her, look her up. There's the combat stress article that she edits. And what else would would you want to gear anybody in a certain direction if they maybe want to connect with you or help out what you're doing, your cause and all of that? [00:50:35] Speaker B: Certainly just Google Dr. Platoni and my website should come right up, but just in case it's www.doctorplatoni1word.com. Okay. And there's loads of articles on there. I also encourage your listeners to get on the website for the American Institute of Stress. That's where all of our publications are located. They subscriptions are free and we have some of the best writers in. In the nation, many of whom are complete amateurs, but they write for us for combat Stress. So we have contentment and Combat Stress many, many, many podcasts on dealing with stress. So just go get on the website for the American Institute of Stress and you will find a plethora of wonderful resources. Okay. And most of them are free of charge. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Okay. I'll share that when I do some reals. I'll share the American Institute of Stress in your article for sure. With everybody. Everybody. The audience. And I think that just. I have my doctorate, educational psychology. You have your PhD specializing in what your specialization is? [00:51:52] Speaker B: Well, I actually have a Psy. D. A doctorate in clinical psychology, not a Ph.D. but I specialize in treatment of PTSD, war trauma, police psychology, and chronic pain. [00:52:05] Speaker A: So amazing credentials here, everybody. And I just. I think this has been a great conversation. [00:52:14] Speaker B: It has been. Thank you so much. And I would like to dedicate what we did today to my dear friend, Janet Kai. She is something pretty spectacular and she, she brought us together. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Yes, she. She is amazing. Her art is beautiful and I hope to have her on as a guest, as an artist. I think it'd be fun to collaborate as artists. This. [00:52:33] Speaker B: Oh, please let me know so I, I can tune into that, please. [00:52:36] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you so much, Dr. Kathy Platoni. And I'm so glad we got to meet face to face virtually. Me too. [00:52:46] Speaker B: Thank you, Dr. Sarah, very, very much. [00:52:49] Speaker A: You're welcome. And so everybody listening, thanks for listening to the Dr. Random podcast. [00:52:55] Speaker B: And we'll say ciao, ciao, bye bye. [00:53:04] Speaker A: La.