Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Dr. Random podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah and here's the deal. We don't do boxes here. Every episode is different, every conversation has its own flavor, and no topic is off limits. If you're looking for predictable, this isn't it. But if you want real conversations, honest takes and a touch of intellect in the best way, you're in the right place. This is Dr. Random podcast.
Okay, well, hello everybody. Thanks for listening in on the Dr. Random podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Lavaroni and today I'm very excited for this episode because we have Marine Corps combat veteran Keith Cole and his website, which includes some books that he, he is an author of. His website is recoverybyfaith.com and his book is Burnout God's Recovery Plan.
And as everybody knows, you know, I have a passion and support our veterans and military. So I'm very excited to have Keith Cole on my podcast today. And his book has a faith based, you know, kind of veins running through it. And so I'm excited to discuss everything today with him.
And so, Keith, I'll kind of let you take the floor here and just kind of introduce us to you and tell the world what you're about and what you'd like to share.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Oh, thank you so very much, Sarah. And thank you, thank you for having me on your program.
I'm very excited about this and, and so I really appreciate you for that.
Like Sarah said, I'm a Marine Corps combat veteran.
I was a machine gunner in, in Vietnam.
And while in Vietnam I was like, I say I kind of used to get shot every once in a while, but I was wounded on three different occasions.
And, and the thing is, you know, the whole thing that started with my situation was when I was in high school, my dad died and I, I was a senior in high school.
I, as a kid, throughout the whole time I was a kid, I knew I was going to become a, a Methodist minister.
I used to preach to my artificial, my imaginary, rather my imaginary congregation that sat on the stairway.
And.
But when I was a senior, then my dad died and he was a railroader, very strong man. And so I knew of course that wasn't his fault, that had to be God's. And I blame God.
Pretty much became pretty rebellious from that point on.
Got out of high school, joined the Marines, went to Vietnam.
On the way back from Vietnam, I left Vietnam because I was medevaced out and I was in the hospital for several months.
I went back to duty and I was the.
Called I and I duty which is instructor and inspector.
And we trained reserves, but a lot of our time was spent notifying next of kin when their Marine was either killed or wounded in action.
And then we were the honor guard for that fallen Marine.
Okay. Which is honorable duty. But that too took its toll.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: And I. I got out of the Marines early because my mother died and I became guardian of my younger brother and sister.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: I was 23 years old when that happened.
And from there I went to college, became a cpa.
I did everything to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to work for myself. And Finally I was 100% self employed.
And.
And that created a tremendous amount more stress.
And it just all came to a head one night in my office. I was there alone and I totally reached out to God to help me.
But that's kind of a nutshell version.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Over the last several years.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Okay. That's quite a story and a journey you've had.
So you said you were 12 when you lost your father?
[00:05:32] Speaker B: I was in a 12th grade.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: I was a single 12th grade. Okay.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I was a senior in high school.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Sounded like it was something very sudden, unexpected.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah, he had. He had. He had a stroke and was in the hospital, I guess, if I remember correctly. About a month, I think.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: And.
And died while he's in the hospital.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Okay. I'm really sorry that you went through all that, that age, as you know, I don't know if you listen to the first podcast I did on Fatherless Daughters or episode three about my dad, but.
And speaking everybody out there who has been through this kind of loss of a parent, I really feel for you, especially with that agony of being a month in the hospital. My dad was in a coma for nine days after his heart attack, and I never got to say goodbye. But a month sounds agonizing.
So I'm really sorry you went through all that. And wow. Just the fact that you had to come and take guardianship of your younger brother and sister, that took an amazing amount of strength that you probably didn't even know you had to fester up in you at the time.
And just, you know, I just think that's quite a story that you have. And then the fact that you have gone out on your own and did your CPA thing and still, you know, fledged through and worked hard, you know, that takes a tenacity and a strength.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think that the strength, of course, is, you know, surviving Marine Corps boot camp.
It's a whole, you know, it's a whole attitude thing and it's like there is no weakness.
It's all strength.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Self reliant strength, that is.
And so the thing of it is is that that training, that that experience, it just, it never leaves you. You go into, from the Marines into civilian life and you still think you're the tough guy.
And so the strength, the strength gets you going and keeps you moving until it doesn't.
And then the strength too, as it does it keeps you going but it never heals you from your trauma.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: That's when I guess the strength of God comes in, right?
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Well, definitely. That is, that's the way it happened with me. Is I.
The thing, Sarah, is you know that Marines men especially, I suppose regards to what branch of service union.
You don't like to admit that you're being, that you're broken, but that particular night in the office, I broke and I surrendered.
Surrender in the Marine Corps is a dirty word, but I didn't surrender to an enemy.
I surrendered to Jesus.
And that's how my healing began.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: It's a powerful message.
And speaking of surrender, which you were just talking about, you know, there's Matthew 11:28 where Jesus says, come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
And I feel like that verse speaks to how you know, speaking of surrender and you reflected. I know through your book that burnout isn't just about being tired. It's deeper, it's emotional, it's physical, a spiritual exhaustion.
So what made you decide to share your story in this way?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Well, first off, you know, you mentioned Matthew 11:28 and Matthew 11:28 was definitely my anchor verse.
But so after that, that night in my office, it was quite late then. I was, I think my wife had called me during the evening several times I think. But after that I, I just started.
All these years have gone by, so what in the world happened to me? Why. Why did I break down and why did I get myself in such a condition?
And so I just started writing about it. I was pretty much writing to myself that as I, as I kind of reflected on what I, what I was writing, I was thinking, wow, I'm not the only one that, that's been in combat or you don't even have to combat.
There's a, there's plenty enough to have burnout just wherever, whatever you may do, it'd be circumstances.
And so I thought it's not me alone. And I know this is helping me and I just believe that it's going to help others.
So I took my memories, my Pain and my redemption.
And I poured it into a fictional Marine who I called Kevin Casey.
And so throughout the book, all names are fictitious except for. I do have a chapter on men of the Bible who have. Who had burnout. They didn't call it that at the time, but the symptoms were there.
And another chapter on women who had burnout.
And their names, I use their real names.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Of course the.
But I have a.
Throughout throughout the book.
And then I come to the very last of it with a.
It's kind of. It's a program. I call it a workbook actually.
And so it's, it's a. It consists of eight different items.
And so those eight items are action, prayer, read scripture affirmations, have a gratitude journal to visualize so visualization and to exercise and to rest.
And so there's eight, eight different items. And each one of those item is grounded in scripture.
And so that's for one week.
And then the second week is the same items but the scriptures a lesson for each one of those. The verse changes and it goes through 12 weeks.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: And I've been through that workbook several times since putting it together and I believe that the recovery has been close to miraculous.
It's been good.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: That's amazing.
And yeah, the workbook just so everybody listening. He has the book on his website plus the workbook that everybody can pick up.
And so I guess my kind of next thing I wanted to get into is there's that moment when so many people were. You experience, you've been pushing for too long and it sounds like, you know, you had a. Sounds like a kind of a compacted about. Would you say five or six years there since the death of your dad and everything that followed.
And you know, God's recovery plan talks about, you know, he restores my soul and with restoration and real life and everyday life, you know, even when we look in the proverbs about trusting in the Lord with all your heart, not leaning on your own understanding, you know, your book can.
Leads into things. Can you kind of.
Would you maybe want to talk about anything particular that kind of rolls around that or anything you want to discuss that stands out to you?
What was like a powerful moment for you while doing the book?
[00:15:36] Speaker B: I was the night that I actually cried out to God.
I was being in my office. I was there by, by myself. And I always kept my scotch bottle down here in my left hand desk drawer.
I, I pulled that out and I, I took a long drink from the bottle and put it back down on my desk and I, I realized that it wasn't.
It wasn't this, you know, wasn't getting a thrill out of alcohol like I thought I had before or I should. And so I reached over and to take another drink and I started to. And then I just. I slammed it back down on the desk. And I, I remember saying something to the words to the effect that I. I can't do this anymore.
And, and I crayed out to God help me.
And.
And from there I asked God to forgive me for the way I have been, the way I reacted.
And I, I had 50 years since I. Or a little more than that, that, that I had planned on being a minister.
And when I had just totally blamed God for my dad's death.
And so I spent a lot of time on the floor that night with my face down, praying.
And it became just a feeling of warmth and caring and know that I was in God's care.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: You felt his presence.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: So it was pretty much has helped me to change my relationships and my cynicism is pretty much gone.
I'm not quite the cynical person that I was for several years of my adulthood.
And I. I sleep much better.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Had a, With a, With a burnout or heavy stress. There's all always times of waking up early and.
Or several times through the night being very restless.
Those days are over.
So there's, there's physical, mental, emotional, all improved and definitely spiritual.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: And as far as you know.
Do you, do you mind sharing more about your actual experience being in the Marine Corps during that time as a gunner? I just find that pretty interesting as a.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: In Vietnam was.
There were some, of course naturally just very difficult times.
Our, Our company, our battalion actually had made a couple beach landings and so we left the ships. We was interesting. We, we practiced beach landings using a boat, an Amtrak, which would carry troops into the. Up onto the beach.
And then the door would open out and you go out and. But when we actually made the two landings in Vietnam, we did it by helicopter.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Okay, but.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Which is kind of funny in its own self. But.
So when the helicopters would take us ashore, they didn't want to land just because of the danger of that taking incoming fire.
So they would kind of be up above a little ways and let us jump out.
So the thing of that was is that we're going in there. I had backpack, black jacket, the machine gun, a few hundred rounds of ammo and three canteens and an E tool 45. And you know, so I had a lot of weight, flak jacket.
So Not I was a skinny kid and thinner once. I was got when I got to Vietnam for a while.
But what happened is then they say jump. You know, you look down there and say, you want me to jump? Where?
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Oh man.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Type of thing.
But fortunately on either one of those times that we had the beach landings, we never took on the enemy fire.
But as we got further into the, deeper into the country, into the jungle, then of course we did one particular night we were setting up a perimeter. So we're digging our fighting holes.
And as I'm doing that and I.
And it's about knee high and I hit water.
So my fighting hole starts to fill up with water.
I said, well, this is, this is not a good thing.
And it's about dusk and about that time we had incoming rounds. They're coming rocket attack, coming across from the dmz.
And so I got into the fighting holes as close as I could, but as low as I could, but with the water and there couldn't go down too far.
And so that, that particular time that they kind of had, the old adage came to mind. I think it was World War I. They said, there are no atheists in foxholes.
And I, I know that I was praying at that particular time and during that, that particular night, the fighting hole just down from mine, there were two marines in that were.
Had a direct hit with one of the rockets.
And so then it was a few days after that when I was wounded. My, the first time I was wounded, The.
Third time, the third time I was wounded. We had another platoon that was ambushed.
And so we were going out to assist them in the ambush. And I was riding on the, on the side, on top of the tank with a, with a couple other Marines.
And so we got, we were getting out to where they were. It was pretty dense, but there was a room for the truck, for the semi to get through, for the tank to get through.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: And I could see up ahead where this other platoon was sitting there and they were in the back of a truck. They were just sitting there, which would seem strange if they had just been ambushed.
And but so just assumed of course that everything was, had been secured.
And so you kind of just have a sense of relief, you know, it's like type of thing, right.
And, and about that time the tank I was on was hit by an anti tank weapon, which was an incinerated round.
So part of the round went inside of the tank, but a lot of it just came ricocheted and so it hit the guy next to me in the neck and. And it was a.
His blood and everything just splashed over me and I was hitting in the leg and, and into my foot and, and.
And so after that I was.
It's interesting.
It's like there's a lot of dust and there's a lot of smoke around and stuff. And so it's kind of like pretty presumptuous of me, I suppose, but I. I could. Felt like as though I was rising.
And so I thought, well, I've been killed.
And then.
And about that time the tank commander yelled, get off the tank.
And then I said, I knew that wasn't God.
So I jumped off the tank. And when I landed on my foot and leg, I knew there was a problem.
And so from that then the Marine next to me and I were both medevacked the same helicopter after the tank pulled around and started firing into the jungle. So.
But then after that, then we were. We were medevaced out and that's when I went home.
The.
The being on. On the INI duty and notifying Nexif Kenneth of Marines who were killed or wounded was a lot of ways more difficult in combat.
That was.
That definitely left more wounds that can't be seen.
And so.
Pretty much that's when I pretty much started drinking a pretty heavy level to cope. A matter of coping with the situation.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
Just envisioning all of that happening. You know, I think a lot about, you know, there's this podcast I listen to sometimes. It's called Model University. It's Motivation University. They talk with a lot of military Navy seals.
So I just think about, you know, the after effects of what our veterans go through after combat and how, you know, you, you know, have to turn to kind of a coping mechanism. Is there like, where do you think if you can share with maybe say, the current guys that are going overseas now with this current war, you know, with your, you know, your experience and your wisdom now that you have, and with this book that I'm hoping that a lot of them will read. Is there anything you feel like you want to share that would.
That you feel on your heart or mind?
[00:28:53] Speaker B: I. I think that the, the first thing is, is.
The, the men and women they go into combat today are strong, they are tough, but at the same time, it's not something.
It's not weak to talk to someone if you're having, if you're having the, you know, the difficulties.
Like I, I had nightmares for a very long time and I said earlier I was very cynical.
Short temper and it is something that just, you know, I regret for waiting so long to ever to talk to anybody.
My situation.
And it's, I believe it's important to talk to someone. Don't try to go, go through that alone.
It's. It's just not healthy.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: And rather it's talk to somebody you trust, the.
Some, Somebody who's been there or somebody experienced and knowledgeable in the situation that you're doing.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: So it could be, you know, it could be a possibility to be a family member, a friend, clergy.
Very important.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: As I always say, there's nothing wrong with therapy.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Yep, exactly.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: To be ashamed of with therapy.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: Exactly right.
And.
And it's not weakness to admit needing help.
I think that it actually probably takes more strength. Maybe in some cases, you know, it's not easy to say, I wait, I need help.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: No, it's true. That's a, A big step in admitting, you know, it. Because we tend to want to be defensive or protect or guard that part of ourselves that feels vulnerable. So admitting or taking that step that you need help. I think if people could just see on the other side of that about how much better they're gonna feel when they take that step and they're gonna get out of the darkness, get out of kind of like that hole they feel like they're in or that, you know, that sense of hopelessness.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Yes. And I agree.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: And yeah, this is just such a powerful message to everybody who's listening. And you know, and I think that I'm hoping that, you know, a lot of people are going to pick up your book. You've experienced all this firsthand.
And I know that is.
Are there any other faucets or like streamlines that you want to share with us today?
[00:32:39] Speaker B: I'm, I'm also, I'm reaching out to church end of veterans.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: So I have, I prepared different types of programs that I can reach out to them with.
And, and because it's just like, I mean like earlier, you know, we talked about it. It's not just a, just a combat veteran, you know, not just people who've seen combat. There's all types of trauma that we go through today.
And, and the, you know, there's, there's one, one other thought too that, you know, when I, when I was in Vietnam, the Vietnam War was on television.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: Huh.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: So everything that was rather, it was, you know, 6 o' clock news or 11 o' clock news. It might be the same one. Over. Same films over and over.
It might have been the same ones from the day before, but like my family, that's what they saw, that's what they knew.
And so in their minds, I'm constantly fighting, but that wasn't the case.
Right.
And so for those families that do have.
Have their children or husbands or wives in a hostile area, I don't know if it's any consequences.
Pardon?
[00:34:23] Speaker A: I don't think the worst possible.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, because it's not the worst. All the time when I was in Vietnam, I knew when to laugh. I knew when I was having fun, enjoying, you know, we, we were playing or whatever we might have been doing, but it wasn't like somebody was shooting at me 24, 7.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: Uhhuh.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: Every day. Right.
Same thing.
Maybe in a hostile area, but that doesn't mean you're, You're. You're constantly ducking.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you, you make me think, you know, of that time. You know, my dad served in the Vietnam War too, in the Navy, but, you know, he was in communications. But it's. And there's actually an interesting photo album somewhere in my mom's house of the Philippines.
He brought back some interesting artifacts from, from overseas. I would. I call them artifacts. But, you know, and I think about.
I think even as a kid, I always found it fascinating to think about, wow, there was a war that, like, my dad was in. And I always. And I think about, you know, you were in that too. And it's, it's always kind of like, interesting to think about, you know, and like you're saying, don't always think the worst, but it's, you know, and I think about, you know, us thinking about having possible draft now with everything going on, which hasn't happened since the Vietnam War.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: And, you know, I'm sure it's raising a lot of questions and concerns, obviously, and, you know, but I would like to think, I hope that everybody in the military today or sick people that get drafted, you know, I hope that our nation has. I'm praying and hoping that we have a sense of appreciation for what they're doing.
And, you know, there's going to be different mixed thoughts as always.
You know, of course, peace is always better.
And.
Yeah. So I always think about how we're just all on one. We're all on the same planet, you know, we're all on the same planet.
But.
Yeah, just. Just thinking of the Vietnam War and everything and all that.
It. It's just interesting to me. I know there, There was a story that was told at my dad's funeral. I don't Know the war, the rules, the word with the naval ships. But I guess that it was announced when he was overseas that the war was over.
And you're never supposed to wake up the captain, but he went and woke up the captain because it was an important message.
And so I guess supposedly my dad was the one overseas who got the first message that the war was over, according to his buddy in the military at his funeral who spoke. But, but yeah, so I, I mean, just picturing you being there and your stories of it, you being a Marine and just, you know, envisioning that water filling up. I mean, it's almost make an interesting movie.
But.
Yeah, there's a movie.
I don't know. Have you ever seen the movie Big Wednesday?
No, it's a surf movie, but it's like from the.
I think it was made. I don't know what year it was made, but it's surfers during the Vietnam War and some of them try to avoid the draft. I think you would find it pretty comical. It's not a very well known movie except around surfers, but there's like a pretty important piece in there around the Vietnam War and how these guys, some go to war and some of these guys try to avoid being drafted. But it, it's an interesting movie, so.
And just all the different politics then and how you were probably feeling with all that.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I came home from 67 and a lot of, A lot of demonstrations, I guess you call them.
And so we didn't have a base when I was on INI duty, so we had it. But we had a compound, so we lived off the base. We have to drive through the city to get to the, to our compound, to our office.
And at that particular time we were not permitted to wear our uniforms.
But the going to and going to and from work, of course we did. I mean, the funerals, but.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:39:24] Speaker B: Notifying families, but the, But I, I never had an encounter with, with anybody over, you know, right or wrong, whether it's right or wrong or whether, you know, I mean, we're, we're called a lot of names generally, but not personally. Yeah, inside.
It never, it never really bothered me at the time.
I just, the, my, my preference at a time is if there's, if there's two Marines, one of them wanted to be there and one didn't. I prefer to have the one there beside me who wanted to be there.
And so whether, you know, The thing of it is when you're, you're 17, 18, 19 years old, you're Young and stupid.
And after a little bit of Marine Corps boot camp, you think you're invincible.
Right. And so it's, it's.
But that's, that's the type of person in combat you want next to you.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And yeah, your book has.
What's amazing about his book, everybody listening, is he, as I mentioned, he has the workbook I recommend, you know, utilizing it, getting the book, doing the workbook.
You know, it's a wealth of knowledge.
And Keith Cole, I'm so glad that you came here on the Dr. Random podcast today.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: I'm very grateful to be here with you. Sarah. Thank you so very much.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Yes.
And I think the biggest message that Keith, you know, shares and is passionate about is that, you know, if you're ever feeling overwhelmed or you feel like, you know, you're burned out, as his title of his book, you know, burnout, God's recovery Plan.
Just know that God sees you, he cares for you.
You know, you don't have to carry it alone.
And, you know, as Keith's messages, reach out. Don't be ashamed to reach out.
You know, and it doesn't have to be a military type trauma, as we're saying. Maybe you're dealing with a death in the family or you have an addiction problem. Whoever's listening, you know, just take that step. Because on the other side of taking that step, you fear is recovery.
So, Yeah.
Anything else you'd like to add, Keith, before we end our podcast session today?
[00:42:42] Speaker B: If anybody wants to reach out to me, they can reach me through my website.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Yes.
And again, his website is recovery by faith.com and Keith, tell us just before we go really quick, you're located in. You want to share with everybody?
[00:43:01] Speaker B: I'm in. Yes. I'm in Bethesda, Maryland. So I'm just a few miles actually from the White House.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: Amazing.
I love going to D.C.
i'm actually possibly going to be up there again because I am an advocate for ijm, which is International Justice Mission.
Are you familiar with them?
[00:43:25] Speaker B: No, I'm sorry, I'm not.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: Okay. They help combat and fight human trafficking and it's a Christian organization. And so we're having our advocacy summit in June coming up.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: Oh, great.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
And whenever I'm in D.C. i always like to go visit the art galleries and see all the monuments.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's incredible.
I mean, it's. It's the cheapest vacation you can take, too.
Nothing you don't have to pay to get into the Smithsonian.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Yes. Yes.
Yeah. And of course, a dream of mine would be to have my work, my artwork maybe in there someday.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:44:11] Speaker A: Some gallery, you know.
But, yeah.
And yeah. So I just want to thank you, Keith, again, for coming on the Dr. Random podcast. And everybody listening today, I highly recommend you picking up a copy of his book, burnout God's Recovery Plan, and Visit his website, recoverybyfaith.com.
and thank you, Keith, for just, you know, being a true patron for our freedom here in America, being a, you know, Marine Corps combat veteran. So thank you for that.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Well, thank you very much, Dr. Sarah. And thank you for having me.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: Yes. All right. And as always, everybody, I will send out and say ciao.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: It.
